Arya Samaj

Shishya

Creciendo en Gracia:
Minister Claims To Be Second Coming Of Christ
by
Joe Shortsleeve
CBS4 Boston.com, USA
Oct. 2, 2006

BOSTON — Is he a religious savior or a cult leader? A self-proclaimed messiah from Florida says it’s his job to save humanity. His church is called “Creciendo en Gracia” — or Growing in Grace Ministry — and there are four congregations here in Massachusetts.

The church’s leader is Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda (right) and when asked who he is, he replies “I am Jesus Christ Man. . . the second coming of Christ.”

There are now 300 congregations across the world. Annette Diaz belongs to one in Mission Hill. She says “he’s transformed my mind.” She is not alone.

Miranda’s followers in Boston truly believe they have seen the light. “We know where we came from,” said Clara Diaz. “We were angels with God that came to this earth to have a physical experience and he has taught us, he has taught us that we are perfect.”

Luis Miranda is a 60 year old former heroin addict and convict. He operates what he calls “God’s Government on Earth” from a warehouse in South Florida. Like any head of state, he is protected by a security detail that mimics the Secret Service. “I will be the President of the biggest government that this Earth has ever experienced,” Miranda said.

Miranda tells his followers they are free to indulge, to have it all. According to this modern messiah, there is no sin, no devil, and no hell to pay. Miranda says “the devil is destroyed, hell doesn’t exist, no condemnation for the chosen ones”.

Luis Miranda is certainly willing to enjoy his earthly pleasures. His followers don’t seem to mind his lavish lifestyle. I asked them, “does it make sense that Jesus Christ would drive a BMW or wear a Rolex, does that make sense to you?” Clara Diaz replied “definitely, we are in 2006.”

Cult expert Steven Hassan says this is a step by step seduction. Considered one of the nation’s top authorities on cults, the Newton based author wrote “Releasing the Bonds.” When asked what it is about this group that makes it destructive, he says, “it seems to have the top figure who claims to be God, who is perfect and is quoted as saying he has nothing to learn from anyone else. He wants to takeover the world.”

Regina Albarracin says make no mistake, this is a cult. She and her husband left the group five years ago, but their son Alvaro did not. A web entrepreneur, he has donated more than one million dollars to the church. He even left his first wife to marry another church member. He is now estranged from his family. “He destroyed my family,” Albarracin said of Miranda. “He’s the devil.”

Jennifer Casasola, a church member from Boston, disagrees. “Well if it is a dangerous cult, then it is the most wonderful cult that was ever established. Our lives have been transformed because of him and we owe him everything.”

The followers of Crescendo en Gracia have also organized marches — sometimes violent — against other religions which they say have been deceiving people for 2000 years. Although they won’t burn the Bible, they will ignite just about anything else that goes against their beliefs.

(Source)

Shyena · Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:26 am Post subject:

Shishya · Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:34 pm Post subject:

Namaste,

It never ceases to amaze me how short the collective memory of people is. It seems like a new 'Jesus' pops up every few years, and still each one manages to find a few thousand people who are willing to give him all of their money. Actually, it's very, very sad.
_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Shyena · Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:32 pm Post subject:

Namaste,
What troubles me is that these SETI's [self effable troublesome indians] never keep THIS kind of trash in newspapers...
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Shyena · Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject:

Namaste,
What troubles me is that these SETI's [self effable troublesome indians] never keep THIS kind of trash in newspapers...
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Deepan Abisuriya · Junior Member Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 66

Namaste,

Jesus Christ says in the Bible- 'many will call themselves Christ, many will say here is Jesus, there is Jesus, but don't believe in them, they are false christs. But when I come, I will be seen by all, all around the world.' (sourse: Matthew, Luke (from the Bible)).

Even though Jesus Christ has warned against these cheaters. Yet I am totally surprised that people are becoming fools.

I should say, christianity and the christians should return to the Holy Bible to be purified, they should study and teach the Bible among themselves, when they themselves are superstitious.
They should enlighten themselves and remove superstition from their own religion rather than convert people irrationally.

What Jesus Christ said holds good to them who claim to be His followers ( but are not) - "Physician heal thyself". Chrsitians and Christianity should return to Christ to understand the purity of His message of simplicity.

I feel we hindus are better than them! Because they carry the Bible every sunday to chruch but they can't understand its holy message.

Namaste,
Deepan.

Shyena · Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:23 pm Post subject:

Namaste,
I doubt that - the way they interpret the bible is simply terrible; each sect interprets it as it likes. But all try to agree on one line:
"I am the only way to kingdom of heaven and there is no other way than me"

Problem with this line is that jesus also said "eat my flesh[bread] and drink my blood[wine]" but the former one is not symbolical for some reason Razz

_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Deepan Abisuriya · Junior Member Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 66

Namaste,

The symbolism of bread and wine is that, bread means the "scriptures "- any scripture you believe that it is holy. We are to be nourished by the words of the scripture by practice of discipline. The best is the manthra recitation of Vedas, which have the most energizing power to the reciter.

And the wine is the pure belief on God that purifies the soul and keeps away from fear. Even the scrifice of Jesus Christ.

The thought regarding the " only way" shouldnot be mistaken, as Jesus Christ is exalted and mentioned in all scriptures. In the Bible, Quran, Buddhist Scriptures, and even in the mahabhavishath purana. There is a hindu priest who became a christian after he found verses depicting Jesus Christ in the Vedas - Pastor Mani Iyer (there are so many instances like this). But why did he become a christian, Christ did't tell to become a christian. He could have been a hindu and followed Christ.

We can by being hindus believe in all scriptures. That is the greatness of hinduism, where in no one is insulted, and all faiths are regarded as sacred.

And Jesus Christ reiterated the Vedic dharma. Please read the teachings of Jesus Christ, you will find this true. Please don't go by the denominational interpretations.

And since He is believed to be the "The Word" who was in the beginning from creation with the Brahman (as per Bible and Quran, and also as per the vedantha, Baudhisathva by some Budhists), He is said to have come into the world through a virgin and to be the sacrifice for the sins of the whole world.

Not that we will not be punished for our sins, but that He took away the spiritual degradation that sin brings in our souls, that we may reunite with God. He taught karma yoga, bhakthi yoga ns gnana yoga. In this sence, He said " I am the only way...."

This is true as:

1) He is the only one who is predicted and mentioned in many scriptures universally. But our 10 avatharas are only in Bharatha khanda, thus they are not recognised universally.
2) He is considered holy and spoke the sanathana dharma (book of Daniel in the Bible).
3) Historicaly Jesus Christ is seen in many countries, before His death and after His resurection.

4) Jesus Christ is considered to be judging the world at it close as per the sathya yuga theoriest, Bible and Quran. Budhists and Zoarastrians also believe in the One who comes to judge the world, but are still not familiar with this.

Jesus Christ should not be underestimated. Jesus taught the vedic dharma very clearly. But the christian preachers project this verse as if all should become christians, because He said He is the only way (true as per above analysis).

This is the great and futile mistake they are doing, just to increase the number of their members. But Jesus Christ infact was against conversions, and He never started a new religion. He was predicted from ages in many scriptures and civilisations, He was born and led a life as it was predicted, and then fulfilled His mission on earth and will be coming to give the last judgement.

All these have historical evidences. As hindus we are to believe in " sathya meva jayathe". Conversions are high due to two reasons.

1) Hindus have not understood that Jesus Christ preached sanathana dharma and that He was also aquinted with hindus and their system. They burn the Bibles and insult Christ (not all, but some fanatics who have not read the scriptures, but claim to be religious following some leader who also has no idea of the scriptures).

They try to underestimate Him and reject Him. Which makes a person who knows the historical facts of Jesus christ and the scriptures to turn to christianity which seems to be having the truth, but the new convert after entering the religion finds out that they are just taking Jesus name, but not following Him. He also then thinks , it was better I would have been a hindu and followed Christ ( as the St Thomas christians (first christian of 2000 years history in India) did. They were hindus but believed in Christ as per the scriptures.

Vedas are not against Christ, nor Christ against the scriptures.

2) Christians hide the fact that Christ taught sanathana dharma, but portray the same sanathana dharma through the Holy Bible and confuse the new convert to think that hinduism is castelined, superstitious and have no truth.

But if christians are true followrs of the Jesus Christ, they would teach the vedas, Bible and Quran.

I am happy that hindus are doing this.
Any clarifications, please reply.

Deepan.

Shyena · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:39 pm Post subject:

Namaste,

Devo · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:45 pm Post subject:

Shyena · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject:

I cant remember the sources; but jesus had no disciple named 'thomas'. His name is judas; and is called thomas or 'twin' to distinguish him from the others.

Devo · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:14 pm Post subject:

Namaste,

Well, maybe 'instruct' wasn't the right word, in this discussion. However, Jesus did say to his close followers to go forth and spread the 'word'....

In the coming days or so, I will try to bring online the thoughts of Dr. Tulsi Ram, an Aryan writer, as he comments on the Satyarth Prakash, and dwell very precisely on the an Arya Samajists outlook on the general topic here, with regards to Jesus, his teachings, and the contradictions in those teachings found in the bible.

Also, I personally wouldn't trust the Church's account of the Apostle's venture, to a very high extent.

In Swamiji's commentary on Christianity, he shows how/what Jesus may have learnt about the 'word' from Vedic Literature, and currently researchers are trying to connect the pieces to show that Christ, infact travelled to India.

And, I believe he did.

If you notice in some accounts of Jesus' life, a potion of his story between the ages of approx. 10 yrs - 30 yrs is not really accounted for. Could this mean that during this period of time, Jesus travelled in search of 'truth', and found his way to the Vedas and Vedic literature, in India?

That is the question researchers are trying to figure out....

Deepan Abisuriya · Junior Member Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 66

Namaste,

Thanks for all that, but I find that the above comments are more of anti-christ sentiment and not the vedic thought of " let all noble thoughts flow from all sides".

I see above the message to defame Jesus, and call him a cheat.

This is because people read the scriptures to find something to misinterpret and try to insult Christ. You have read books which contradict christianity and with a view to insult Christ, not the Bible and Quran intently.

This also happens among christians and muslims, who to portray their religion to be right would only read books which insult the vedic literature and distort them. This was one of the main reason I became a hindu, because hinduism is a religion where you find all religious thoughts in it.
I did't find aggresiveness to destroy Christ and distort His message.
The main thought is to open the mind to the facts and not collecting biased facts to insult the other religion.

Infact Jewish scripture prove that masiah will be born through a virgin, not just a woman. A jewish scholar had established it and even the dead sea scrolls have shown this as fact. What you are saying is a outdated thought of offensive judaism who try to prove that all religions are evil and only theirs is true. The above comments seems to convey the same but biased to ones personal view and not vedic or hindu thought.

I am surprised that, Bible and Quran are non-authentic.
Please read the scriptures in their true thought and you will find that they are also God's word and contain the vedic message.

Jesus life history was not written 200 years after him, infact recent archeological excavations have shown that it was written exactly at the time he walked on earth (life time of Christ -1 century). Please keep track of recent updations.

I am also astonished by the question- regarding the existance of St Thomas. The book of Acte Thomae, and many other reliable historical books of christianity in India, have him mentioned. If all are fabrications, then some even doubt the authenticity of present manuscripts of 4 vedas which are much older than these.

Speaking about puranic history, there has been so many instances where the archeologies and historians disproved some events and later said that it was the fact.

Ramayana is also authentic and historical.

Regarding flesh and blood interpretation, you are to read the whole new testiment. I will give you quotes from where the christians interpret these verses, but later.

Let me tell you, please don't read the history as you want it to be. Don't read the Bible and Quran as to find something to insult. All religions are well established with historic authenticity for thousands of years, with spiritual meanings and interpretations. Respect them and try to find the truth, and not only to contradict them. Reading Davince code and satanic verses will make the thought anti-christian and anti-islamic.

Look to all the facts and not biased to support yours or someones who never had studied these scriptures, but had read it, or discussed it. Studying and reading, makes difference espeacially when we read the holy scriptures.

This will only destroy knowledge. But the open minded aproach to all scripture is the true vedic view.

Jesus Christ was not a cheat, but Holy Word. There is nothing to mock on this thought, as it has more of a spiritual understanding and scriptural quotes than just say that I can't believe. The critics of the Holy vedas also claim to have found nothing valuable in them . They are blind leading the blind. But enlightened mind comprehends those things which critics mind can't. Let us not be so. You may mis-quote and misinterpret the sayings of Jesus, but can't prove them.

Swamy Dayanad Saraswathi brought a thought provoking approach to all religions in his "light of truth', but not a ani-christ or anti-islamic, anti-jewish, anti-jain or anyother "anti-" sentiments.

Any comments, please be free, I learn a lot from you.

Deepan.

Shishya · Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:37 am Post subject:

Namaste Deepan,

I respect your desire to instill peace between the religions. To strive for peace is a noble goal, and such a thing takes courage, especially in times such as these. Indeed, what we need is understanding in regards to the various cults of the world, and not blind rejection. Therefore, I very much appreciate your intent.

At the same time, however, I feel I must make one thing clear: We do not know the original teachings of Jesus. For that matter, we cannot even prove that such a man really existed. All we have to go on is the available literature and the doctrines of those who call themselves Christians. Therefore, it makes little sense for us to make conjectures about what he 'really taught, said or did'.

I, for one, have no interest in apologizing for the Christians. Do their doctrines, as they teach them, make sense? In my eyes, they do not. Is it my job to interpret and/or correct them so that they do? Not at all. That is the job of Christians and Christians alone. I can tolerate Christians for their faith and devotion. But I can't be expected to make sense out of that faith. Nor can I be expected to share in that devotion. My tolerance is all that can be expected.

I don't know anything about Jesus for certain, and I don't think anyone will be able to provide me with solid proof of anything in this regard. Therefore, I will not insult Jesus. But neither will I claim that he was a holy man. I will leave that to those who claim to know.

For the sake of the discussion, however, let us suppose - as Deepan and Devo indicated - that Jesus travelled to India during those 'lost years' and that, upon his return, he was teaching Vedic Wisdom to his people. The fact would remain that the authoritative scriptures of the Christians fail to make this evident. It may be that those texts have been manipulated and distorted so as to conceal this. Or it may be that his followers never really understood his teachings in the first place. Regardless, there remains a discrepancy between the recorded teachings of Jesus and those of the Vedas which cannot be overlooked without sacrificing a great portion of the content of the latter.

Therefore, such discussion may prove useful in helping a Christian return to Vaidik Dharm, but otherwise serves only to blur the lines between the Truth of Vaidik Dharm and the sectarian doctrines of the various cults in the world.
_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Shyena

[quote="Deepan Abisuriya"]Namaste,

Deepan Abisuriya · Junior Member Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 66

Namasteji,

The thoughts above show that we are speaking the same thought in different angles.

I studied the Bible and Quran and then the vedas. What I found is that the Quran says that the Bible has to be read, and the Bible predicts that the Quran will be given. And our Vedic scriptures say us to open our minds to all noble thoughts.

Basiscally as per history, the Vedas were given first, then the Bible and then we see the Quran. This means that we find God's message to all people in differrent times. As I read the scriptures in this view, I found no contradiction what so ever. Even regarding Jesus Christ's divinity, or Muhamad's prophetic words. I also believe in the 24 saints of the Jainism.

In all I find no missing links and that all have their own place in the scriptures and religious world.

I intensely share the Vedic thought to christians through the Bible, to muslims though the Quran and to other religious people with their own holy books. I only found that every religion wants to criticise one another and nothing but increase their population strength. But the scripture don't teach this.

As I studied the Holy Bible, I believe in its authenticity and its historicity. There are a lot of historical facts regarding Christ and His divinity. Untill I get a solid evidence to ripe Christ of His divinity, I can't do it. So it is with the Muhammad as a prophet, the 24 tirthankars as the Jainas, and Budha as the "enlightened one".

I am really surprised that you have read the Quran, but not the Bible, Bible was written before Quran and Quran tells us to read the Bible.

I think as you start doing research on the Bible you may understand the Quran better as I comprehended the Bible message in the Quran. Ultimately as you said all will converge to the vedic thought. Absolutely agreed.

But what is the vedic thought? Is it not Bible and Quran message of peace and love? If divinity of Christ in the Bible is not agreeable to you, then the predictions of the Daniel (not a apocriphal book) and Revelation in the Bible, which have come true historically become absurd. Their predictions have come true and no one can deny this. In fact it clearly mentions the massiah's time of death on the cross, which was exactly the time of Christ's death. And the events predicted in the Jewish scriptures which massiah will do has come true in Jesus. Please read the old testament Bible, which is the Torah of the Jews.

I am not anti-jewish. I respect them as I respect my race (hindu). The Bible and Quran gives high regard to them as they are the children of Abraham and that God revealed to them in history as He does to us (hindus) through the power of Vedic recitation. They didnot kill Jesus Christ, infact the first converts to christianity were all jews who found Christ fullfilling the predictions of the massiah in the old testament. I would not go to the detail as you have not read the Holy Bible.

Any way, it was a excellent discussion with you. Very Happy

Thanks for this.
Deepan

Devo · Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:45 pm Post subject:

Namaste,

Well, I can see a discussion triangle here, basically. However, in a nut shell, it boils down to 'truth', and the evolution of truth through the pages of all these scriptures.

At the end of the day, it's about our vision of truth, our understanding of truth, and how we would present this truth to others.

Deepan Abisuriya · Junior Member Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 66

Namasteji,

Thats the enlightening thought of putting the spiritual knowledge to practical living, that all may live with the living individual.

Thanks.
Deepan.

Shishya · Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:11 pm Post subject:

Namaste Deepan,

As you seem to be quite well versed in this particular topic, would you be interested in writing an article for us here at the forum? I think something like "The Teachings of Jesus Christ in Light of Vedic Wisdom" would be a very interesting topic, not only for us here, but also for Christians. Would something like that interest you? There is no pressure , but we would all be very thankful, I believe. At least, I know I would. Very Happy

_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Devo · Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:39 am Post subject:

Prabhat · Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:34 pm Post subject:

are baap re, pagal lokh to bahut hai dunyia me.
_________________
Namaste,
Prabhat

Shyena · Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject: