Arya Samaj

Prabhat · Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:03 am Post subject: Is the Theory of Evolution true?

Is the Theory of Evolution true?

And what do the Vedas say where humans come from?
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Namaste,
Prabhat

Hiten · Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject:

Namaste Prabhat

Thats a very good question, particularly relevant to the youth of today.

I would have to say false. Strictly based on the teachings of Swamiji, regarding the first man to be created in Tibet. (Am I correct? Please advise Shishya)

Also the relationship of cause and effect, makes me believe that God is the primary cause and us humans as the effect.

But remember principle number 1: "God is the primary source of true knowledge and all that is known by its means"

Hope my answer helps
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Regards, Hiten

Aum Shantih Shantih Shantih

Prabhat · Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:51 pm Post subject:

Namaste Hiten,

oke, but what are we made of, and did he make us like who we are now.
_________________
Namaste,
Prabhat

Hiten · Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:15 pm Post subject:

Namaste Prabhat

I am afraid my knowledge does not extend to the type of question you are asking me here. Confused

I can recall something that I read in the Satyarth Prakash, but can not remember it off the top of my head.

Hopefully, the other members will be able to answer your question in a suitable manner.

Sorry.
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Regards, Hiten

Aum Shantih Shantih Shantih

Prabhat · Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:30 pm Post subject:

Namaste Hiten,

No probs bro. we can not know everything. thats why we are human. Wink

_________________
Namaste,
Prabhat

Shyena · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:29 am Post subject:

For one thing, we can't strictly follow swamiji because the fundamental tenet is "one should abandon untruth" and swamiji never said he's authentic. Samkhya philosophy supports material evolution, however it doesn't support "nothing came out of something" and says that purusha manifests in the material, evolving from simpler forms of life into greater ones.

Shishya · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:59 am Post subject:

Namasta Prabhat, Hiten and PD,

This is a very important and complicated topic. I have plans to write a longer article on this subject sometime in the near future, but I can give a short answer in the form of a few jumbled notes for now. Hopefully it will suffice for the time being.

First, Hiten: You were correct in your statement regarding Tibet. The Vedic name for this region is Trivishtap, and it is considered the birthplace of mankind.

Second, regarding the theory of evolution: It is vital to remember that it is and will forever remain a theory. The reason for this is that it cannot be proven, only assumed based on the evidence available. But any honest scientist will tell you that Darwin's theory is not the only one which could explain the available evidence. It is just the most widely publicized.

Vaidik Dharma teaches that God created man, and not that he is the product of spontaneous and random mutation as the theory of evolution claims. And this is really the crux of the whole argument, for it boils down to one point:

Do you think the world - as well all the creatures in it - is the product of blind chance or of intelligent design? Or in other words: Are you an atheist or theist? For only an atheist could believe that the world is the product of blind chance, and to believe in an intelligently ordered world is to presuppose the existence of a Divine Being who transcends creation.

Evolution, as a theory divorced from theism and which claims that man evolved from other, more primitive forms of life, rests squarely upon a belief in 'chance' - a belief which is supported by neither the Vedas nor by any other branch of modern science. Therefore, I reject it outright as a viable explanation for the origin of man.

As PD mentioned, however, evolution as a principle of creation in no way conflicts with Vedic teachings. But God is always the guiding intelligence behind that evolution.

I know that's not really a complete or satisfying answer, but I think the conversation will continue, giving us the chance to discuss things in more detail. Wink

_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Prabhat · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:49 am Post subject:

Namaste Shis,
i so hoped that you had an answer.

so why did God not tell the Rishis, how we are made. he told them everything, accept how we are made. and why he made us.
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Namaste,
Prabhat

Shyena · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:58 am Post subject:

That's what samkhya-shaastra compiled by kapila muni explains ^^

Prabhat · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:07 am Post subject:

Shishya · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:11 am Post subject:

Namaste Prabhat,

PD is right. The Samkhya and Yoga Darshanas together offer a very comprehensive picture of the structure of the human being, his development and his pupose for being here.

Also, Swami Dayanand offers a good summary of this in the Satyarth Prakash, detailing all the important points. We will be discussing it in depth in the Study Group.
_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Prabhat · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:20 am Post subject:

i think, i need the Satyarth Prakash real fast.

can i downoad it from a site.
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Namaste,
Prabhat

Shishya · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:28 am Post subject:

Namaste Prabhat,

Yes, the Arya Samaj of Southern California has a copy you can download for free.

http://www.aryasamajsocal.org/dev/component/option,com_docman/Itemid,35/task,cat_view/gid,15/
_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Prabhat · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:40 am Post subject:

Prabhat · Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:56 pm Post subject:

namaste all.

oke comming back at te evolution.

people in the west say the first humans where from africa, but this where the apeman kind of people(dont know the early homosapians names).

If the fist human where created in Tibet, why would the west hide this kind of info.

What realy than happened to the dino's and apeman, and why, wrong creation of God. Confused

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Namaste,
Prabhat

Shyena · Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:18 pm Post subject:

To be frank, we cannot accept what swamiji said as it is; because for this information he relied upon Manu Smriti thus cannot be considered authentic information - especially considering some of the facts as it speaks of only three vedas; splitting of golden womb into "two halves" (in vedas it is not said in such a manner) splitting of races into dravidians and 'aryans'; and criticises them.

Second; swamiji accepted the six darsana and in them; the samkhya school supports evolution of purusha evolving the five elements from a lower level form to a higher one - the words cannot be interpolated from what i read, it is clear indians had the idea of evolution and supported it.

Death of dinosaurs has not been answered even by the evolutionists, let alone us..

Shishya · Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:38 pm Post subject:

Namaste,

PD raises a valid point concerning Manu Smriti - and one which Swamiji also expressed concern over. He recognized that Manu Smitri has suffered greatly at the hands of priests in the way of interpolations and ammendations, and spent a good deal of time trying to separate the 'wheat from the chaff', so to speak. However, he was unable to complete this task before his untimely death.

I have been looking for a reliable Arya Samaji translation of Manu Smitri, but have been unsuccessful in my search.

Prabhat · Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject:

i have read this name a few times, but who or what is this "Manu Smitri"
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Namaste,
Prabhat

Shyena · Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject:

ManuSmriti is the most (in)famous "dharmasastra" - a law-book like the constitution that defines how a society is to behave etc..
The first chapter speaks only of creation and theology, followed by it are the rules the society has to pertain to.

The book is infamous for its short-sighted interpretation make it look like the source of caste suppression with tremendous criticising of shudras. Whether it is or no, it surely stems from the interpretaion and not the book itself.

Shishya · Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:35 pm Post subject:

Namaste,

Here is an excerpt from a (surprisingly good) Wikipedia article on Manu Smriti:

Shyena · Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:39 am Post subject:

Namaste Shishy,
Guess who wrote it Razz

Shishya · Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:22 am Post subject:

Namaste PD,

No idea. It wasn't you, was it? Shocked

_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Shyena · Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:05 pm Post subject:

Namaste Shishy,
My forum name "PD" is an abbreviation of the other name i use, "Parnah Dhanika". Parnah Dhanika if literally translated means "Leaf Lord". This is the other name i use in many forums, including wikipedia where i use the name "Leafy".

To take the article out of its previous pathetic state i spent my time searching relevant quotes of manu smriti from Swamiji's works. To get some extra quotes, i relied on George Buhler's translations, but as the translations cannot be perfect i relied on another advocate of manu smriti - Srila Prabhupada. At veda.harekrsna.cz he gave the the gist of significant verses and the numerical references (you know; the 1.5.6 kinda stuff... i dont know what they're called) so modified buhler's translations based on them.

After spending 4+ insomniac hours i posted the article and had a good night sleep of 10+ hours Laughing

Shishya · Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:17 pm Post subject:

Namaste PD,

Very nice work! I was impressed and pleasantly surprised to see the article there in the first place, as it isn't the usual slag you find on Wikipedia. I should have guessed ... Laughing

_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Shyena · Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:43 pm Post subject:

Namaste Shishy,
Thank you Very Happy

I however feel that the article wont be well accepted by dalit advocates and seperatists, the allegations that my article is racist article denying the real holocaust(?) of dalits are already up so I *think* I should put some effort into making the article comfy for them too Razz